Sorry I have been rather quiet lately. We were crazy busy with the show and etc.; then, as is typical when busy and around alot of people, I picked up the plague. Now, back to the conversation.
These questions come from Jennifer via this recent post:
“Would you classify your church attire as casual, business or social?”
My answer: Because I like church to be different from everyday, I mostly use my business or social clothing. Casual would also be appropriate.
Primarily what ends up being different is the shoes; I ALWAYS wear heels to church. If the event I am dressing for requires mostly sitting and very little walking, wearing heels is like bringing my own little footstool.
“I’m having trouble getting my mind around “business”–maybe as a homeschooling mom, I don’t have that category. Or would my version of business just be appointments in offices, such as with a tutoring center for example?”
My answer: It’s true that on a daily basis most homeschool moms have very little need for business clothing. That’s why, even though they fit my idiom very well, until very recently I haven’t owned a suit (since I got rid of the one from the early ’90 – the shoulders made it look way too big for me!). So, in the back of my mind, I kept one “suit substitute”, just in case I have to do something unexpected. Not sure what it would be, but I like to be prepared.
Consider wearing business or business casual to the following types of events:
- Appointments in offices.
- Conferences and meetings.
- Homeschooling events, such as field trips, especially if you are serving as the coordinator.
- Anytime you are in contact with your husband’s co-workers.
To be quite honest, I am frequently shocked by the respect I get when I dress this way. Don’t we really want “homeschooling mom” to be viewed as a respectable profession?
“And would social be formal like wedding attire, or also afternoon tea dresses, and pretty baby-shower outfits? If not, where do “baby shower” outfits fit? Baby showers are about the dressiest thing I go to these days!”
My answer: Yes. In my mind, social covers all those. It’s dressy stuff you need in order to be appropriately attired for social events, even banquets and birthday parties depending on your social life.
BUT, clearly what actually is worn to some of these types of events varies greatly. Take Mary’s comments for example:
“I’m a homeschool mom, and I was classifying “social†as wedding or church. “Business†to me, would be what I wear to a conference (writing is my particular cup of tea)…I’d probably wear the same type of attire to a baby shower.”
So Jennifer would wear a dressy outfit to a baby shower, Mary would wear business, and if I wore either of those I would be way overdressed!
In Nothing to Wear?: A Five-Step Cure for the Common Closet
The choices:
- country life
- suburbanite
- urban dweller
- traveller
Could that account for the difference in baby shower attire?
I’m still thinking it has more to do with geography.
Oooh, lots to think about! I need to write down every single event I go to, and how often I go to them, and re-analyze my lifestyle segments…. or maybe I should just buy more of everything. That sounds easier!!
I definitely agree that geography & “arena” have a lot to do with it… you know, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. My friend told me at her university (UVA), girls wore flowered dresses and guys wore jackets and ties to…. football games. That would so not fly here in California. But sometimes you wonder, has the bar just fallen way down, and do I really *want* to look like everyone else?? That’s more personal I suppose. Thanks, Rebecca!
Another comment about sporting events… most people wear casual or leisure to the pro basketball games we go to, but then, the closer you get to the court, the nicer people dress, even in heels or sportscoats. Those people paid a lot for their seats too. Something to think about.
Hey, Jennifer, thank you! This was a great series of questions. Lots to think about, but stuff that it’s good to think about.
That cracks me up about the football game (that’s Virginia, right?), although I had heard that kind of thing before. Now, I would definitely classify a football game as leisure and wear my particular idiom’s version of jeans and a sweatshirt. Obviously these young people were taking it as a social event!
Which leads me to another thought: it could be good to have these kind of conversations with people who are new to one’s area. Could save them some embarrassment, plus just being interesting.
And I agree the bar has fallen. Way down!
How much we want to look like everyone else is one of the primary components of style personality. I never want to be wearing the same thing as anybody else, but I also don’t want to be conspicuously overdressed for fear of embarrassing someone. You, on the other hand, are probably very comfortable wearing what should be the appropriate thing (I think you are a little higher on the innovative/trendsetter scale than I am). Perhaps people should be a little bit embarrassed by their dressing down.
I think that you make a very important point (which you have made before) when you say you are shocked by the difference in respect you sometimes get when you wear a suit. I think that sometimes when we dress we need to think about dressing for the response we want to illicit in other people.
For example, especially when you are a stay at home (or homeschooling) mom, you do not want to meet the folks your husband works with wearing a pair of jeans and a Winnie the Pooh sweatshirt. It probably doesn’t exactly send the kind of message that you want to either them, or to your husband!
I find that when I am volunteering (not doing grubby work, but if I am presenting something to a group or trying to convince someone to use an idea etc etc) I try to dress more business casual just for that reason. Ditto with any situation where I think I might have to “persuade” anyone, like a child’s teacher, or a doctor, or a salesperson (if I’m trying to get them to do something for me).
As far as the “Arena” I think that that, or geography, are very important. I grew up in Bangor Maine, home of Steven King. I remember when one of his movies came out in the late 80’s (maybe Pet Cemetary?) one of the big name magazines was making fun of how folks showed up to this Hollywood Premier (given in Bangor Maine) in Kahki’s and a sports coat. Hey-in Maine, that IS dressed up!
Could part of the “arena” equation be proximity to leisure/vacation destinations? Here we are surrounded by lakes, close to skiing and resorts, and the city of peppered with parks. I have met with resistance to dressing from people who live in the Rockies and my sister has from people who live in her little Victorian burg on the beach. Sounds something like Maine, but then I’ve never been there.
Thanks for pointing out that the same idea applies to stay at home moms, and probably retirees and others too, even though it came up in the context of homeschooling.
I’m a little reluctant to mention it, because you never know who reads this, but the day I wore the suede jacket and white shirt (which I wore because I was representing the theatre group to the teachers who brought their classes for a field trip) I had the actual bosses of the theatre checking in with me. The last day of the show I wore a t-shirt and, as I look back on it, the people in line to pick up their tickets from me seemed somehow less confident that I knew what I was doing. It really does make a difference.
A sidebar on suit substitutes. For some of us hard to fit folks, it is sometimes hard to find suits per se. So most of my adult life I’ve been a separates kind of person.
I am more comfortable overdressed than underdressed. I think that part of my feeling comes from a desire to show respect. I am showing respect for my peers, my doctor, the church if I dress in a put-together way. I won’t wear jeans in church. I’ll wear them to the movies (usually with a blazer) but am not really comfortable wearing them to live theatre.
A couple of places I see the bar lowered in terms of dressing are in restaurants and at the theatre.
There certainly are more nice suit separates now than there were 20 years ago, aren’t there?
You raise a good point about live theatre. I have never really been to the theatre much, other than this youth theatre. When we first began attending these events I usually dressed up, but recently it’s been more jeans and something nice with it. But in terms of showing respect to the performers, I can see stepping it up a notch.
You’re an inspiration, Wendy!
I laughed because I keep a loosely filled shelf of wardrobe books and I recently purged that one. Edith Head had similar advice about “arena” and took it a step further. She thought a person should research what is worn by going and looking, the way she would approach costuming an actor for a part. This is the same kind of advice that tells you to stand in the lobby and watch what people are wearing if you intend to apply there. She thought, also, that is was good to see what the kindergartners were wearing before you bought a school wardrobe for your child so that it wouldn’t be ostracized or made fun of.
In college – in the 60’s in Philadelphia – we were expected to wear suits to football games. When I got off the train to visit a beau at UVA, though he was from New York, he was startled at the black clothes I was wearing and wanted to know if I was an art major. 🙂 Also, in those days, any time a girl took a bus downtown to shop she wore a suit and gloves!
When a friend who had grown up Episcopalian became a convinced Quaker after her marriage she was bewildered and amused to see that the women – many obviously wealthy – came to Meeting in what she termed “yard clothes.”
More recently, I used to volunteer full-time with the school district, attending many meetings, hearings, conferences. This is one of the poorest cities in the country. Most parents would show up in sweats. I usually wore suits. When I had lunch with 2 college friends who live nearby, both physicians, they were shocked that I even owned suits as they didn’t. But then, they get to be introduced as Doctor.
When a community organization I belong to was considering going door to door, the president mentioned that members needed to dress down and wear something like a tee shirt. Polly Bergen, in a book I have, said about the same thing – that you had to remember that someone could be opening their door in a robe or housedress and would have a harder time relating to you and your cause if you were formally dressed.
In fact, Polly Bergen has said something I have really taken to heart. (Paraphrasing) That 2 things are very important: to be noncompetitive and to dress to show your respect for the importance to you of your cause, event, and other people’s commitments. These are what I have to work hardest at – I especially tend to be a reluctant attendee and will sometimes begrudge my time and I realize my clothes have communicated that – not grungy, but too devil-may-care..
Vildy, thanks for sharing all those interesting stories!
I’ll have to look for that Polly Bergen book, she’s got some great advice. Plus it’s fun to think about what has changed since then and what hasn’t. I would never have considered being noncompetitive to be a value worth mentioning!
I wonder if we’ll ever see the day when the door-to-door religious organizations take up the dress down advice.
“I wonder if we’ll ever see the day when the door-to-door religious organizations take up the dress down advice.”
I used to be close to a fella whose whole family was Jehovah’s Witnesses.
They are the only ones I’m familiar with who go door to door. They certainly do dress up for this quite formally. Here, the men wear suits and the women wear suits and hats. They also believe that it is meritorious to be reviled and rejected for spreading their teachings. So, no.
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