To warm up for the upcoming Modesty Carnival, here’s a re-run from December 2005.
Things that I’ve heard some nice guys (and we all want to encourage guys to be nice, right?) don’t really care to see at church (or at the office):
- cleavage
- thighs
- any part of an undergarment, including a bra visible through a shirt
- clothing that resembles lingerie
- boots with short skirts
- fishnet, or other provocative-type, stockings
- “more than they want to see” when you sit down
What would you add?
I’m with you, girl!!!!
Things I don’t want to see on any one over the age of 5, male or female:
*butt cleavage
*underwear (boxers, thongs, whatever)
*sweatpants with elastic at the ankles (shudder…)
I am mostly in agreement with that list, Rebecca. But I still wish I could wear boots with a skirt! And, Beth-I think my husband is ADORABLE in his sweatpants that have elastic at the ankles (although you can’t really tell as much because they are so loose and longer on him). =0)
My husband and I had a similar discussion, more than once. Growing up in a family where bikinis were the norm for summer and short skirts were just about right I had a hard time transitioning to modesty. If women (young especially)realized half the stuff that went through mens minds when they saw them they would shudder. :)We are not to lead others into temptation which means dressing appropriately in each situation.
Just the other day in my inner city suburb a woman, late 20’s – early 30’s, commented to me about her shorts. It was a hot day, she was plumpish, on her way to a convenience store and her clothing reflected that – not city shorts or a styled look. A man her age had offered her a ride to the same store. She turned him down saying she didn’t know him well enough to accept a ride.
I bantered with her and said that her momma would be proud. She grinned back and explained her decision, “He wasn’t attracted to my face. It was my thighs he was talking to. He wouldn’t have stopped to talk to me if he hadn’t been looking at my legs.”
On modesty at religious services: Some 30 years back there was a heated controversy in a synogogue where I knew the rabbi and some of the members. Women wanted permission to wear pants to services. Observant Jews are commanded not to wear the clothing of the other sex. This extends (at least for some?) to the then ubiquitous “unisex.” But this congregation was not in any way socially or culturally isolated. I would say the highest proportion of members were professionals or held doctorates, though it wouldn’t be unusual for them to eschew owning or watching tv’s. To be careful about their influences.
Not long before, I was told by a woman I knew who belonged to a different community and who was the wife of a shohet (ritual slaughterer) that her sister-in-law would not allow her own sons, the woman’s nephews, to visit their aunt’s home. The boys were in boarding school in the city where the aunt resided and were in another state from their family. It’s generally regarded that a shohet has to be the most pious and carefully observant person, not only because he deals with kashrut issues for the community but because the nature of his task could otherwise be brutalizing and coarsen his character and spirit. So this was a very religious family.
What was the reason the boys were forbidden to visit the aunt’s home? The teenage girls were allowed to wear pants. The sister in law felt this was flagrantly immodest.
What was the rabbi’s decision for his embattled congregation, who were by then bringing up the case of Yemeni women whose society viewed their “pants” as traditional feminine dress? Women could wear pants but only so long as they were specifically women’s trousers and not unisex or men’s pants.
I might get in trouble for this, however something I’ll never understand is mixed gender CHURCH hosted pool parties. It would be okay, if people dressed modestly, however I had to stop and drop something off at one of ours (I didn’t attend), and their were women that you see on the stage at church singing each week in skimpy bikinis. It totally threw me through a loop. They looked good too…… the next week when they were dressed in their church finery again, on the stage, singing int he worship team, I wondered what man was picturing them in their bikinis again, and the thought totally weirded me out. I really think that church of all places, should be a safe place for men, in that area.
Your list looks good, my friend!
Eek, I just had to comment on my spelling/punctuation errors! I didn’t mean that the women wore skimpy bikinis ON the stage each week (forgot a comma!). And I missed up there/their. I should proof-read but I had a little one on my ankle demanding his ‘heeth-bursh’ (toothbrush).
I have worn those tops that have a bit of lace that come up around the top — so I guess that could be mistaken for a camisole. I hope that’s not what you mean! Or I’m guilty as charged.
I think this also applies to men. If there’s a church workday, for example, and people are sweating it out in the sun, it’s not fair for a man to take off his shirt!
Great list Rebecca.
Carrie, I understand what you’re saying. I’ve always thought to equate wearing a bikini to parading around in your underwear. In that frame of reference, you’d never catch any of these ladies wanting to strip down to their undies for anything, yet they’ll do it because they have to get in the pool… Such a contradiction.
But continuing on the theme– church isn’t the only place that you should be modest. It is a time to be reverential, but you shouldn’t leave your godly life at the church door and go out to be whatever you want…
Vildy ~ interesting that you bring that principle up. I’ve had it in the back of my mind to write a post on that very topic. In the meantime, suffice it to say that my take on that teaching is that it should be clear by looking at the person whether they are male or female. Some women are able to look very feminine in clothing sold for men, while others may need to exercise care even in women’s clothing to look feminine. If I were in the latter group, I might incline more towards skirts than I do.
Carrie ~ you won’t be getting in trouble with me! Hopefully everyone in our church is familiar enough with our standards for the youth (the girls are required to wear one pieces and encouraged to cover them with shorts) that we won’t be seeing any bikinis at our upcoming family camp.
Damselfly ~ you’re pretty perceptive to pick up on that. That is what I mean, but since a) I have a personal distaste for most lace, and b) I am not your authority, I defer to your husband’s judgment. 🙂
My pet peeve with men? Sagging!
MIn ~ you are totally right that our life before God is our entire life, not just what happens in church, and we ought to be watching out for our brothers all the time.
I agree — men should be careful as well (as mentined, leaving shirts on, etc.)
I think that a simple concept could pretty much be a fix-all is just to have complete and utter holy respect for church, and it being God’s house, and dress accordingly.
Spot on! Even if you don’t dress like it every day – when you go to church, out of respect, you should cover up!
On an interesting related note, my original Bargain Queen avatar was wearing a mini skirt with a cleavage-showing top.
When I asked my friend Dave (who now does all my technical support) to test the site for me just before it went live, I expected him to come back with lots of technical issues — but the first thing he mentioned was that he felt uncomfortable staring at my under-dressed avatar. I wasn’t even aware it might make some people uncomfortable!
In the end, I did change the avatar a little. I thought about Dave’s comment and then I thought about how I usually dress. I realised the avatar was an unrealistic depiction of me because it’s not my style to wear a short skirt and a revealing top at the same time. I’m happy to show one or the other, but not both at once. An outfit only needs one focal point! 😉
My avatar now wears a knee-length skirt with her low-cut top and knee-high boots. It’s still not exactly modest, but it’s a lot closer to something I’d actually wear.
That is a really good point, BQ. I’ve also heard: show skin or shape, not both. Even if a person isn’t trying to dress modestly, overdoing it can be the difference between sexy and streetwalker. Thanks for sharing!
Dave is a true friend. 🙂
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